Posted by Martin on 23/3/2017
Dear All,
I propose to start the discussion about a simplified Inference model for the case in which the interpretation of a text as a proposition is not questioned, but other things are questioned:
A) assertions of historical truth: We need a text with a questioned fact, such as Nero singing in Rome when it was burning. I think Tacitus states he was singing in Rome, and another source says he was on the countryside.
B) Shakespeare's "love is not love" : scholarly interpretation = translation of sense
C) Questioning provenance or authenticity of texts: In the Merchant of Venice, place details are mentioned that only a person who was there could have written that. Shakespeare was not allowed to travel abroad.
C1) Or, critical editions: In the first written version of Buddha's speaches (Pali Canon), there are identifiable passages that present past-Buddha dogmata.
I would start with A), then B), then C)
So, we first want to solve the case that the premise is a proposition, which is not believed as such.
Rather, it is believed that the author of the text meant to express this proposition. This implies that the premise does not make any sense without a provenance assumption, which must be believed.
In A), the provenance of the text from Tacitus is believed. His good will to say the truth about Nero not.
In B) The provenance "Shakespeare" back to the respective edition/name or pseudonym/place of creation is not questioned.
In C1) The text as being that compiled following the first performance is not questioned, but who wrote the text under the name of Shakespeare is questioned.
In C2) The provenance of the Pali Canon edition is not questioned, neither that its content mainly goes historically back to Buddha, but the provenance of a paragraph is questioned.
Therefore, we could Introduce a subclass of I2 Belief i'd call "reading", which puts the focus on believing authenticity of a comprehensible natural language proposition relative to an explicitly stated provenance, but does not mean believing the proposition, nor questioning the intended meaning of the text: see also the ppt
J1 used as premise (was premise for) : IXX Reading
IXX Reading subclass of I2 Belief (or a generalized Belief)
properties of IXX Reading:
JX1 understanding : Information Object (the cited phrase, understanding the words)
JX2 believing provenance : I4 Proposition Set (This contains the link from the cited phrase to the text the phrase is taken from, and all provenance data believed. E.g. Shakespeare edition 1648(??) believed, authorship by Shakespeare questioned, etc.)
optional:
JX3 reading as : I4 Proposition Set (the translation of the cited into triples. If absent, the interpretation of the cited phrase is regarded to be obvious)
and J5 defaults to "true" (I believe all "J5 holds to be: I6 Belief Value" should default to "True" if absent).
Then, a conclusion could be that the Information Object (cited phrase) is not believed. In that case, we would need to generalize I4 to be either a Named Graph or an unambiguous text. If we do not, we could use JX1, JX3 to introduce the translation of the cited text as formal proposition, and then use J5 to say "FALSE": "Nero singing in burning Rome 18 to 24 July, 64 AD"
In the case of text sense interpretation, we would need a sort of "has translation" construct, if not simply a work about another work (FRBRoo).
The representation of a text in a formal proposition (Nero P14 performed E7 Activity P2 has type "singing" ...falls within Destruction....)
In the case of the Buddhist text, we would need in addition the believe in the provenance of the post-Buddha dogma, plus the reading, resulting in a different provenance for the paragraph.
If we agree on something like that, let us see if we can simplify or shortcut anything.
Posted by Martin on 30/3/2017
Dear All,
My colleague Athina found the following paper:
Michele Pasin, John Bradley; Factoid-based prosopography and computer ontologies: towards an integrated approach. Lit Linguist Computing 2015; 30 (1): 86-97.
It seems that "factoid" describes the attitude towards a text I tried to formulate as "Reading" ?
Posted by Francesco Beretta on 31/3/2017
Dear all,
I'm quite acquainted with the factoid model and issues it raises, and participated recently in a workhop about prosopography in Vienna (in February) where I met once again John Bradley. I would prefer to discuss all this in Heraklion or at a later point on the list because the issue is quite complicated and needs a thorough discussion.
Juste to give some examples quoting the Bradley/Pasin text:
"Factoid represents the spot in a primary source where something is said about one or more persons".
"factoid approach prioritizes the sources, rather than our historians’ reading of them. "
"state of affairs described by the document is either a ‘situation’ or an ‘event’, i.e., more generally, a ‘temporal entity’"
As you see, there are many notions behind the factoid model and I couldn't say for sure if it's an event, a reading or a portion of text, or all of them at once.
In the same paper Martin mentions, an alignment with the CRM is proposed: a factoid is a subclass of E2 Temporal entity and a so called "document-interpretation-act" is a subclass of E3 Attribute assignement. The reading would be more on this side.
I'm not (yet) so trained in the CRM to be able to tell if this alignement is accurate but in any case this paper raises very interesting issues we have to discuss (and are discussing) in the domain of an extension of the CRM for historical data. And are certainly worth a discussion in the SIG.
Posted by Francesco Beretta on 4/4/2017
Dear All,
Here some interesting documentation about the Factoid model:
http://factoid-dighum.kcl.ac.uk/fpo-factoid-prosopography-ontology/#
posted by Simon Spero on 5/4/2017
A quick meta-point on the issue, and the term factoid.
Posted by Anaïs Guillem on 5/4/2017
Dear all,
following the discussion during the sig meeting, here is the link to the diagrams representing the conversation with the Nero’s example that can be used for HW:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1kLy--Qf3mCoLMYxE264ihiIXUgXSLkW…
Feel free to comment
Posted by Martin on 5/4/2017
Dear Simon, All,
Your comments well taken, just to clarify what CRM Inf intends to do:
It does never aim at replacing scholarly and scientific inferencing by an automated machine. Its sole purpose is to document the steps of scholarly inferencing, provenance and dependencies of knowledge used and created. Any use of logic to automate the transition from premises to conclusions would be documented as a use of a tool. In particular, it does not aim at simplifying the scholarly process, only at explicating assumptions and intermediate steps to the degree they are an apparent stage at which other actors would take up results and continue. The CRM is not an AI endeavor.
Personally, I do not regard that scholarly inferencing can comprehensively be described in an adequate manner by any formal logic, at least for the next years to come.
What I have proposed, does not simplify inference. It just describes a frequent case, in which the propositional interpretation of a piece of text in regarded as unambiguous, but the truth of the propositional content is subject to an inference. The construct I propose just models this premise. It assumses, that necessarily any scholar making such an inference, must have an explicit believe about the provenance and authenticity of this piece of text, and that his conclusions will depend on the truth of this provenance assumption.
CRMInf so far had no construct to describe such a premise in a comapct way.
I did not make any statement about how the provenance assumption has been achieved, nor what its precise form is, nor that scholarly reading does not imply questioning the propositional interpretation, which would be just a case just not modelled here. Nor did I make any statement about the following kind of inference.
The simplification is only in the complexity of the model for cases in which defaults are known to hold, here, that the propositional content of the text has not been questioned by the actor making the inference. It is a sort of shortcut.
But the same construct can also be used as a conclusion about the propositional content of a piece of text.
We can never, in a realistic information system, be explicit about all steps of argumentation. We have to rely heavily of defaults. When starting reading a manuscript or inscription, a process of endless details starts until we come to sets of alternative propositional interpretations. Most of these cases can only effectively be described in form of explications to otherwise implicit arguments. The art will be to find out which series of arguments can reliably be documented in an implicit way, and how later details can be added without creating a non-monotonic representation.
If anybody still regards this as an attempt to simplify inferences, I'd like to be pointed to my errors
Posted by Anaïs Guillem on 5/4/2017
Dear all,
In the 38th joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 31st FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the crm-sig reviewed the emails sent by Martin, Francesco and Simon and made the following comments and suggestions:
- It is suggested that the label of the proposed new subclass (see the quote below) “Reading” of I2 Belief should be ‘citation’ or ‘citing’ or ‘quotation’ ‘attested proposition’.
- Provenance (which would contain an instance of I5 or I1) give the context against which the ‘translation’ of the propositions can be assessed and from which ambiguity may arise.
- HW is assigned to Maria Daskalaki, Martin, and Francesco to write the scope notes of the proposed classes and properties and to find use cases with contradictory content. An alternative example from Tacitus/Nero is the register’s example.
- HW is assigned to Steve to review and edit the proposal made by Maria, Martin and Francesco. Then Anais should try to test against some actual data from Lyon (Anais model)
- It is assigned to Oyvind to send names and contact J. Bradley about approaching medievalist to the case on question of redundantly representing data in the graph.
- It is accepted the new issue proposed by Martin “How to use the formulated premises in an argument of adjudication, that x or y was right.” . It is assigned HW to Athina, MariaD, Oyvind, Steve to formulate this issue.
- It is accepted the new issue proposed by Francesco about the nature of existence assertion. ‘Nero set fire to Rome’, how to express Nero set fire to Rome, and expressions of non-existence. How do I speak of what does not exist? It is assigned HW to Carlo, MariaD, Fransesco, Martin to investigate this issue.
Heraklion, APril, 2017
Posted by martin on 5/10/2017
You may find the hw about the proposed classes in this file.
In the 39th joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 32nd FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the sig discussed Martin’s proposal and made the following minor comments:
- The figure should be updated
- I9 Citation the scope note does not give birth and death of the conviction
- Authenticity : its a something that carries the same stuff as what originally happened
- I10 we need not necessarily instantiate the provenance in a many cases
HW assigned to MD to revise it.
Heraklion, October 2017
Posted by Martin on 10/1/2018
<HW>
The updated figure is here and the upadated classes and properties is here
In the 40th joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 33nd FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the sig reviewed the figure proposed by Athina and decided:
(a) To revise the first example of I2 Belief: "My belief that Dragendorff type 29 bowls are from the 1st Century AD" in order to make distinction with the Conviction Class.
(b) to assign to the Oyvind to investigate if it could expressed the following phrase without the use of the term “unambiguously” in the scope note of I9 Citation : “in which the interpretation of the source is formulated as a set of formal propositions or regarded to be unambiguously given in a natural language form.”
The figures and the scope notes are presented here.
Cologne, January 2018
Posted by Martin on 12/5/2018
Here my revision. The idea being, that a belief must emerge from an Argumentation, but may be confirmed by successive arguments, and a belief must not not change value, because then it would be a new one.
This must be merged with the latest edition.
Posted by Olivier Marlet on 15/5/2018
Here is my contribution proposal concerning the use of CRMinf in the case of Rigny's publication (soon online).
posted by Oyvind on 15/5/2018
> It is assigned to the Oyvind to investigate if it could expressed the following phrase without the use of the term “unambiguously” in the scope note of I9 Citation : “in which the interpretation of the source is formulated as a set of formal propositions or regarded to be unambiguously given in a natural language form.”
Suggested new first sentence: ”This class comprises beliefs in the correct reading or scholarly interpretation of the overt message intended by an instance of E73 Information Object (“source”), in which the interpretation of the source is clearly expressed, for instance in the form of a set of formal propositions.”
Original scope note:
I9 Citation
Subclass of: I8 Conviction
Superclass of:
Scope note: This class comprises beliefs in the correct reading or scholarly interpretation of the overt message intended by an instance of E73 Information Object (“source”), in which the interpretation of the source is formulated as a set of formal propositions or regarded to be unambiguously given in a natural language form. An instance of I9 Citation implies believing the authenticity of the respective instance of E73 Information Object relative to an explicitly stated provenance, but does not mean believing the respective propositions. Rather, the truth of the cited message is subject of another scholarly interpretation process. It further does not pertain to arguing about hidden or cryptic meanings of a source, which is subject of yet another scholarly interpretation process.
Posted by Martin on 15/5/2018
Dear Oeyvind,
What about:"”This class comprises beliefs in the correct reading or scholarly interpretation of the overt message intended by an instance of E73 Information Object (“source”), which is either taken to be obvious in its original linguistic form or has been reformulated by the reader for better clarification, for instance as a set of formal propositions.”
best,
martin
Posted by Christian -Emil on 16/5/2018
What may be an issue is that a scholar can study a text and give an interpretation of it. In this interpretation the scholar may not be sure how to interpret the text and can discuss the meaning of the text and its linguistic form. The may be no "the overt message intended by an instance of E73 Information Object (“source”)" but alternative interpretations by the scholar.
Posted by Martin on 16/5/2018
On 5/16/2018 4:28 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>
> What may be an issue is that a scholar can study a text and give an interpretation of it. In this interpretation the scholar may not be sure how to interpret the text and can discuss the meaning of the text and its linguistic form. The may be no "the overt message intended by an instance of E73 Information Object (“source”)" but alternative interpretations by the scholar.
Dear Christian-Emil,
This is exactly what we want to exclude. This is another inference we have not yet modeled. Here, we want to describe only the case in which the text is sufficiently unambiguous, the normal case in reading historical texts. I want to distinguish further from believing what has been said. Should we add explicitly that this class in not intended fro phrases like "the rabbit is ready for lunch"?
In the 42nd joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 35th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the crm-sig examined the proposed scope note and properties of I8 Conviction and accepted them. It was decided that I8 Conviction is to be included in the CRMinf classes. The crm-sig also reviewed the definition of I1 Argumentation and found that I1 Argumentation had mistakenly be listed a subclass of E13 Attribute Assignment. Despite Attribute Assignment being easily construed as a part of an argument/argumentation, it is not seen as an integral part. The scope note of I1 Argumentation declares it a kind of E7 Activity, hence it was proposed that it be listed under E7 Activities instead. Furthermore, the crm-sig discussed the proposed scope note and label for I9 Citation. The updated scope notes can be found here.
Berlin, November 2018
In the 44th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 37th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the sig reviewed the labels that have been proposed at various times for CRMinf class I9, and opted for “Provenanced Comprehension”. The issue is closed.
Paris, June 2019