semantically replacing Recording Event and Externalization Event

Post by Martin (2 May 2022)

Dear All.

Here out of the context of the previous e-votes [*]:

Rnn was remembered in (is memory of) actually means that someone produced this memory. I would rather propose a another property directly of F28:  Rnn included a memory of: E7 Activity.  This is probably much more useful than the Recording stuff we have discussed, is specific to the author, and would help use with the missing documentation activity in CRMbase. It would also help with recording of oral traditions. "Rnn included a memory of:" should be restricted to physical witnesses of the event (or via recording devices).

This would elegantly replace "R20 recorded (was recorded through) ,Domain: F29 Recording Event, Range: E2 Temporal Entity",
and would much better suit the ample evidence of creating memories of theater plays at the BNF collected by Patrick LeBoeuf for the Europeana application of FRBRoo concepts, which included press reports, paintings etc.

It could be more restrictive and be a comprehensive: Rnn created a memory of: . In that case, the "included" would need a specification of the part of the expressions that constitutes the memory.

Best,

Martin

[*] see Issues 591, 592

In the 53rd CIDOC CRM & 46th FRBRoo SIG meeting, the Sig discussed MD’s proposal to introduce a property F28 Expression Creation. Rnn included memory of: E7 Activity to replace R20 recorded.

There were objections raised wrt to whether the property falls in scope with the LRM. The use of the memory of a particular activity in an instance of F28 Expression creation can be dealt with in LRMoo through the subject relation that covers both aboutness and depiction. And could extend to a particular performance. It could be useful for CRMbase. 

However, it seems that the memory is not by default observable. It should be defined as such, otherwise the construct would be a bit obscure.
To add it to CRMbase it would mean that we would have to define an Expression Creation class in CRMbase, which is far from ideal. 
Instead, to discuss it again in the next meeting (with a scope note and everything that goes with it). 

Decision: HW MD to produce scope note in time for the Sig in Rome.
 

Post by Martin Doerr (17 July 2022)

Dear All,

Here my proposal:

 

In the 53rd CIDOC CRM & 46th FRBRoo SIG meeting, the Sig discussed MD's proposal to introduce a property F28 Expression Creation. Rnn included memory of: E7 Activity to replace R20 recorded.

E-mail exchange:

Martin Doerr:

"Rnn was remembered in (is memory of) actually means that someone produced this memory. I would rather propose a another property directly of F28:  Rnn included a memory of: E7 Activity.  This is probably much more useful than the Recording stuff we have discussed, is specific to the author, and would help use with the missing documentation activity in CRMbase. It would also help with recording of oral traditions. "Rnn included a memory of:" should be restricted to physical witnesses of the event (or via recording devices).

This would elegantly replace "R20 recorded (was recorded through) ,Domain: F29 Recording Event, Range: E2 Temporal Entity",

and would much better suit the ample evidence of creating memories of theater plays at the BNF collected by Patrick LeBoeuf for the Europeana application of FRBRoo concepts, which included press reports, paintings etc.

It could be more restrictive and be a comprehensive: Rnn created a memory of: . In that case, the "included" would need a specification of the part of the expressions that constitutes the memory."

Martijn van Leusen:

"Dear Martin,

could you clarify for me what exactly the 'included' is intended to mean? For example, 'included in the (physical/digital) documentation' of an activity?

Martijn"

Martin Doerr:

I mean that the Expression created by the F28 Expression Creation includes parts that constitute a form of documentation or representation of an Activity, which the creator has either witnessed directly or recorded via a device. This could be a painting, photo, a paragraph within a larger text or a complete text about the event, an audio/video sequence etc. Alternatively, we could require the respective painting/photo/text/audio/video to be essentially about this activity. That increases precision, but may cause difficulties separating out and identifying formally parts that are essentially about the event."

SIG discussion:

There were objections raised wrt to whether the property falls in scope with the LRM. The use of the memory of a particular activity in an instance of F28 Expression creation can be dealt with in LRMoo through the subject relation that covers both aboutness and depiction. And could extend to a particular performance. It could be useful for CRMbase.

However, it seems that the memory is not by default observable. It should be defined as such, otherwise the construct would be a bit obscure.

To add it to CRMbase it would mean that we would have to define an Expression Creation class in CRMbase, which is far from ideal.

Instead, to discuss it again in the next meeting (with a scope note and everything that goes with it).

Decision: HW MD to produce scope note in time for the Sig in Rome.

=====================================================================================

Proposal:

Rnn included a memory of (has been represented by)

Domain: F28 Expression Creation

Range : E7 Activity

Quantification: (0,n:0,n)

Scope Note:

This property associates an instance of F28 Expression Creation with an instance of E7 Activity that has been documented or represented completely or partially in the instance of F2 Expression created by the domain instance of this property. The documented or represented aspects of the associated activity should be the result of physical witness or mechanical recording by the creator of the respective Expression and be rendered or referred to in a more or less realistic form.

Typical examples are video or sound recordings of performances, traditional paintings of theater scenes and written reports from theater performances, but also non-artistic subjects such as political proclamations, court protocols or court scene drawings. This property does not pertain to abstract artful expressions of impressions from the respective Activity, interpretations or representations from indirect evidence. The latter relationship between the created Expression and the respective Activity can be documented via the property P129 is about (is subject of).

Examples:

..take from FRBRoo recording....

  The making of the recording of the third alternate take of the musical work entitled 'Blue Hawaii' as performed by Elvis Presley in Hollywood, Calif., Radio Recorders, on March 22nd, 1961 (F28) Rnn included a memory of Elvis Presley's performance of the musical work entitled 'Blue Hawaii' in Hollywood, Calif., Radio Recorders, on March 22nd, 1961 (E7)

 Best,

Martin

In the 55th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM and SO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 48th FRBR/LRMoo SIG meeting, the SIG reviewed the HW by MD (redrafting of proposed new property for LRMoo Rnn included a memory of [D: F28 Expression Creation, R: E7 Activity]). 

How to proceed: 

• LRMoo group are skeptical about the proposed property, and think it’s premature to vote on it. 
• HW: PR, TA, MZ to look at it some more and make a counterproposal. Ask MD for feedback.

For the details of the proposal and the discussion that followed it, see attached document. 

Belval, December 2022

In the 56th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 &49th FRBR/LRMoo SIG, the SIG reviewed the proposal by TA to either deprecate F31 Performance or to introduce properties connecting it to F1 Work and F28 Expression Creation. 

Decisions: 

• Keep F31 in LRMoo 
• Introduce P80 performed (is performed in) [D: F31 Performance, R: F1 Work] in LRMoo 
• Introduce P81 recorded (is recorded in) [D: F28 Expression Creation, R: F31 Performance]

HW: TA to share the updated versions of the properties through the listserv

The agreed upon changes will inform LRMoo V0.9.5. 

For the details of the decisions and discussion points made, see the attached document.
Crete, May 2023. 

Post by Pat Riva (30 July 2023)

Hello all,

During the SIG meeting #56 in May 2023 in Heraklion, the LRMoo WG presented a new approach to performances (see here for the document discussed at the meeting under Issue 594). 

The SIG voted to retain class F31 Performance in LRMoo with its revised scope note, and to accept the new properties, R80 performed and R81 recorded, in principle. An e-vote was requested to approve the full declarations of these properties and the edited scope note of F31. The notes and votes from the meeting are in the Issue 360 WD. 

This e-vote is to approve the scope note and examples of F31 Performance, and the definitions of the new properties R80 performed and R81 recorded, as well as the resulting deprecation of R66 included performed version of (replaced by R80).

This would complete and close Issue 594 (Semantically replacing F29 Recording Event and Extrnalization event).

This is part of the larger Issue 360 (Development of LRMoo).

Final declarations for approval are in this document.

Changes from the drafts presented at SIG #56 are highlighted.

F31: one more example

R80: correction of quantification, two more examples

R81: superproperty, correction of quantification, edit to the scope note, one more example

Regards,

Pat

Post by Oyvind Eide (1 August 2023)

YES.

Out of curiosity: what does

Subproperty of:    Outside of CIDOC CRM scope

for R81 mean?

Øyvind