In the 50th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and SO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 43nd FRBR – CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the SIG decided to start a new issue where to discuss the examples proposed by DH and how they fit in the definition of E4 Period (example section and a clarification in the scope note).
Examples set:
- Old settlement of Helsinki (or Helsingfors) located in the area of the modern airport, not on the coast. The same story with Upsala in Sweden.
- NOTE: These constitute E7 Activities, which have a spatial projection of two disjoint areas, jumping to say so to another place.
- The capitals transferred in modern time: Moscow-St Petersburg-Moscow.
- NOTE: Here we have a move of an administrational unit, which we use to model as a special case of E4 Period.
- “Normal” examples are countries with islands etc.
HW: GH, MD, OE (SdS to proofread)
June 2021
Posted by Martin on 29/9/2021
Dear All,
Here my attempts to create examples for E4 Period that occur on spatially disjoint areas, but with temporal continuity. Two are from Dariah Hook:
* The Capital of Russia (E4) [the capital of Russia is an administrative unit that moved in historical times from Moscow to St Petersburg and again back to Moscow. This examplifies and administrative unit changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
* The settling activity of the community of Hersinki (or Helsingfors) (E7) [the old settlement of Helsinki (or Helsingfors) was located in the area of the modern airport. The community moved later to settle on the coast. This exemplies a continued activity changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
* Bronze Period (E4) [Bronze Period spread out into disjoint areas including islands such as the British Islands without temporal discontinuity]
* The nation of Japan (E4) [In 2021, the Japanese nation comprises in 6852 islands extending along the Pacific coast of Asia]
We still need some citations. Please propose literature.
Post by George Bruseker (7 October 2021)
Hi all,
I wonder about the phrasing of the examples (rather than the substance).
* The Capital of Russia (E4) [the capital of Russia is an administrative unit that moved in historical times from Moscow to St Petersburg and again back to Moscow. This examplifies and administrative unit changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
The existence of the Capital of Russia
(The phrase 'capital of Russia' sounds more like the actor or the geographic place)
* The settling activity of the community of Hersinki (or Helsingfors) (E7) [the old settlement of Helsinki (or Helsingfors) was located in the area of the modern airport. The community moved later to settle on the coast. This exemplies a continued activity changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
* Bronze Period (E4) [Bronze Period spread out into disjoint areas including islands such as the British Islands without temporal discontinuity]
* The nation of Japan (E4) [In 2021, the Japanese nation comprises in 6852 islands extending along the Pacific coast of Asia]
The existence of the nation of Japan
Again, the straight phrase nation of Japan sounds more like E39 Actor or E53 Place.
Best,
George
Posted by Martin on 8/10/2021
Dear All,
Please let me add some clarifications.
All valid aspects that you mention!!
.. but with the Russian example I wanted to describe an administrative unit, not to explain the term "capital of Russia", nor who maintains it. I follow Oeyvind's arguments about the complexity of involved actors. So, let's not make it too complicated. If a better term than "capital" needs to be or can be found, the better.
The point with the Helsinki example is that settlement and administrative unit are completely different in substance.
When the Russian capital moved, the settling activity did not abandon Moscow and later St. Petersburg. The cities did not change names. Only the administrators/governmental bodies will have moved, and associated businesses and nobles. When the Helsinki settlers moved, they may not have formed an administrative unit, or may be the administrative unit was larger, or administrative units stayed in place, or moved with the settlers, but the settlement activity abandoned the old place and populated the new area, as I understand, carrying with it its local name. May be someone can add the details?
Therefore, I try to show that settling and administrative units should be distinguished, regardless whether in former times administrative units may have imposed limits on settling activities.
Kiruna is nice and exactly up to the point, but ongoing, if I understand correctly?
Wrt to Japan, I tried to find the official title of the current country as political unit. Can anybody help, our Japanese colleagues? "Country" may be better?
Posted by Martin on 8/10/2021
Dear All,
Here my new proposal, slightly reworked
* The Capital of Russia (E4) [the capital of Russia in the sense of an administrative unit moved in historical times from Moscow to St Petersburg and again back to Moscow. This exemplifies an administrative unit changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
* The settling activity of the community of Hersinki (or Helsingfors) (E7) [the old settlement of Helsinki (or Helsingfors) was located in the area of the modern airport. The community moved later to settle on the coast. This exemplifies a continued activity changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
* Bronze Period (E4) [Bronze Period spread out into disjoint areas including islands such as the British Islands without temporal discontinuity]
* Japan, the country (E4) [In 2021, the Japanese country as political unit comprises in 6852 islands extending along the Pacific coast of Asia]
In the 51st CIDOC CRM & 44th FRBRoo SIG meeting, the SIG reviewed the examples for E4 Period (HW by MD).
The SIG avoided reaching a decision in this meeting. The examples need to be reworked before they can be put to an evote / discussed anew in the next meeting.
Points raised:
(1) the example with Helsinki in particular is problematic. Instead of Helsinki: the case of Oslo makes a better example or villages that are lost to floods and moved elsewhere upon building a dam
(2) aside calling “The Capital of Russia” the “administrative Capital of Russia”, there needs to be some marker flagging its temporal aspect
(3) come up with more examples, also review and reformulate the existing ones
HW: unassigned
In the 53rd CIDOC CRM & 46th FRBRoo SIG meeting, the SIG went through the examples by DH for E53 Place, reformulated for E4 Period. The examples (as found below) were accepted in the standard and have been incorporated in CIDOC CRM v7.1.2 and v7.2.1.
1. The Capital of Russia (E4) [the capital of Russia in the sense of an administrative unit moved in historical times from Moscow to St Petersburg and then back to Moscow. This exemplifies an administrative unit changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
2. The settling activity of the community of Helsinki (a.k.a. Helsingfors) (E7) [the original settlement called Helsinki was located in the area of the modern airport. The community moved later to settle on the coast. This exemplifies a continued activity changing place over time without temporal discontinuity]
3. Bronze Age (E4) [Bronze Age, in the sense of technological adoption, spread over disjoint areas including islands such as the British Isles without temporal discontinuity]
4. Japan, the state (E4) [In 2021, the Japanese state as a political unit comprised in 6852 islands extending along the Pacific coast of Asia]
Details on the discussion can be found in the document.
Issue closed