Issue 537: How does reducing the range of P39 affect CRMsci?

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In the 49th CIDOC CRM and 42nd FRBR CRM sig meeting (virtual), given the decision to reduce the range of P39 measured from E1 CRM Entity to E18 Physical Thing (issue 511), the SIG decided to start a new issue where to discuss the implications of this decision in CRMsci.

Things to go over are: 

  • E16 Measurement isA S21 Measurement 
  • P39 measured (was measured by) isA O24 measured (was measured by)
  • O12 has dimension (is dimension of) ≡ P43 has dimension (is dimension of), for S10 Material Substantial (and subclasses)
  • Declare O24  measured (was measured by) and O12 has dimension (is dimension of) as top properties of CRMsci. 




March 2021

Post by Martin -June 8, 2021

The current problem of S4 Observation is the single-property formulation, dictated by E13 Attribute Assignment, but compatible with INSPIRE and E16 Measurement. On the other side, it will never allow for observing distances. Therefore, in order to proceed the generalization of Measurement in CRMsci, we can take two paths:

A) Consider a minimal change in the definition of S15 Observable Entity and S4 Observation,  generalize E16 Measurement with these definitions, and later revise  S15,S4 to be a wider generalization. This will leave us with a consistent intermediate stage.

B) Begin with change in the definition of S15 Observable Entity and S4 Observation, Issue 531, and then rework all properties.

I describe here solution A (a modification of the previous formulation of this issue).

I assume as background the change of S15 Observable Entity to superclass of E5 Event, S10 Material Substantial, by Issue 531

  • Change S21 Measurement to superclass of E16 Measurement.
  • Change O24 measured (was measured by) to superproperty of P39 measured (was measured by).
  • Confirm! O16 observed value (value was observed by) to be superproperty of P40 observed dimension (was observed in). It is no more inconsistent.
  • Declare O12 to be identical with P43 for E18 Physical Thing, which is the intersection of E70 Thing and S15 Observable Entity.
  • O9 observed property type (property type was observed by) : subproperty of P177 assigned property of type (is type of property assigned)

This relatively conservative readjustment appears to be the best way to detangle the issues 531 and 388 (Position Measurement)

Please check!

Post by Rob -June 8, 2021


My +1 to this reformulation. 


Post by Thanasis Velios (14 June 2021)

I have created a quick drawing which I think captures the proposed changes if people find it easier instead of the text (I do :-) ). I think the proposed changes seem reasonable and also help tidying up the property hierarchy.

All the best,


In the 50th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and SO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 43nd FRBR – CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, MD presented his HW --how is CRMsci affected by reducing the range of P39 measured to E18 Physcial Thing. The proposed changes are reflected in the diagram below. 


  • To accept changes in the model and in the definitions of S21, O16, O24, O12, O9 (details here). 
  • Start a new issue on correcting the definition of O12 (addition of the axiom in the scope-note) and resolve it in an e-vote. 

Issue Closed


Reference to Issues:

Meetings discussed: