Posted by Martin 21/05/2013
Dear All,
If we use the property "incorporates" for the content transferred from a text to a performance, or from a performance to a recording, or from a painting to the digitized form, the question arises if "incorporates" means complete inclusion. If yes, another intermediate object is needed to specify the insection of content in the incorporating and incorporated, in order to express such partial incorporation.Otherwise, we could relax the meaning of incorporates, and create a subproperty "complete incorporates".
Opinions?
Posted by Patrick 22/05/2013
Dear Martin, and dear all,
I agree with the second proposal, i.e., to regard "incorporates" as meaning actually "incorporates bits of", and create a subproperty for those cases where it is known or assumed (or even deceptively stated on the information resource at hand) that the incorporation is complete.
I also think that "incorporates" should be declared in CIDOC CRM rather than just in FRBRoo; it would then be possible to state that an information object (and therefore an expression) incorporates e.g. an image, without having to bother whether an image is a work or an expression. FRBRer is frequently criticized for its rigidity, and I admit that the work/expression distinction may not be relevant for some types of artistic creations, e.g. drawings and paintings, which are better modelled in CIDOC CRM. Since FRBRoo is an extension of CIDOC CRM, it should be possible to bypass the rigidity of FRBR and handle some products of the mind without having to apply to them the irrelevant work/expression categorization.
Best wishes,
Patrick
Posted by Maja Zummer 22/05/2013
Od: Maja Zumer
Poslano: 22. maj 2013 14:31
Za: patrick.le-boeuf@bnf.fr
Zadeva: RE: [Frbr-crm] RE ISSUE is "incorporates" complete inclusion?
Hi!
I agree that we should also support partial integration. But looking at Martin's examples: is 'incorporation' of the text into a performance really similar in nature to making a digital reproduction of a painting? And what abot this example: I recently wrote a poem which included several lines previously written by my friend on a piece of pottery...? I would interpret this as 'incorporation', too.
Posted by Martin 24/05/2013
Dear All,
Patrick and I propose to introduce "incorporates" to the CRM, with the relaxed semantics described below.
The CRM-SIG decided to merge this issue with 203 until to find semantics for "incorporates" in CRM to answer completeness question.
merged with issue 203
28th CRM-SIG Stockholm 7/6/2013
A notion for complete incorporation is needed for CRM.
29th CRM-SIG meeting, Heraklion, October 2013
A property P165 should be added to CRM with domain the E73 Information Object. The scope note and the examples of this new property should be based on the R14. The scope note also of E73 should be modified.
P165 incorporates (is incorporated in)
| Domain: | E73 Information Object |
| Range: | E90 Symbolic Object |
| Superproperty of: | E90 Symbolic Object. P106 is composed of (forms part of): E90 Symbolic Object |
| Quantification: | (0,n :0,n) |
| Scope note: | This property associates an instance of F22 Self-Contained Expression with an instance of E90 Symbolic Object (or any of its subclasses) that was included in it. This property makes it possible to recognise the autonomous status of the incorporated signs, which were created in a distinct context, and can be incorporated in many distinct self-contained expressions, and to highlight the difference between structural and accidental whole-part relationships between conceptual entities. It accounts for many cultural facts that are quite frequent and significant: the inclusion of a poem in an anthology, the re-use of an operatic aria in a new opera, the use of a reproduction of a painting for a book cover or a CD booklet, the integration of textual quotations, the presence of lyrics in a song that sets those lyrics to music, the presence of the text of a play in a movie based on that play, etc. |
CRM-SIG meeting September 2014, Crete
In the 32nd joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 25th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the crm-sig made few change, but they decided that more elaboration is needed.Øyvind and Steve should work on it.
Oxford, February 2015
Posted by Oeyvind 17/5/2015
A start:
Replace
“A digital photograph of a manuscript page incorporates the text of the manuscript page…(Oeyvind, SDS).”
with
“An incorporation is a media representation as the term is defined in Elleström (2014). The representation can me more or less altered, but central aspects must be clearly distinguisable in the incorporation. Aspects seen as less central can be altered or removed altogether In the case of a photograph of a manuscript page, the visual form of the strokes making up letters are clearly visible, while the smell and weight of the manuscript page is not reproduced. In the normal use of facsimiles where the visual form is seen as a central aspect while smell and weight are not, this photograph represents an incorporation of the manuscript page.”
Comments?
In the 37th joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 30th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting,the sig reviewed Steve’s and Oyvind’s proposal about P165 incorporates and decided that the proposed paragraphs need to be criticized, elaborated and revised by MD for creating a more general paragraph about feature transfer.
Berlin, December 2016
Posted by Martin on 22/3/2017
Dear All,
Old scope note:
P165 incorporates (is incorporated in)
Domain: E73 Information Object
Range: E90 Symbolic Object
Subproperty of: E90 Symbolic Object. P106 is composed of (forms part of): E90 Symbolic Object
Quantification: (0,n :0,n)
Scope note: This property associates an instance of E73 Information Object with an instance of E90 Symbolic Object (or any of its subclasses) that was included in it.
This property makes it possible to recognise the autonomous status of the incorporated signs, which were created in a distinct context, and can be incorporated in many distinct self-contained expressions, and to highlight the difference between structural and accidental whole-part relationships between conceptual entities.
It accounts for many cultural facts that are quite frequent and significant: the inclusion of a poem in an anthology, the re-use of an operatic aria in a new opera, the use of a reproduction of a painting for a book cover or a CD booklet, the integration of textual quotations, the presence of lyrics in a song that sets those lyrics to music, the presence of the text of a play in a movie based on that play, etc.
In particular, this property allows for modelling relationships of different levels of symbolic specificity, such as the natural language words making up a particular text, the characters making up the words and punctuation, the choice of fonts and page layout for the characters.
When restricted to information objects, that is, seen as a property with E73 Information Object as domain and range the property is transitive.
A digital photograph of a manuscript page incorporates the text of the manuscript page
New scope note:
P165 incorporates (is incorporated in)
Domain: E73 Information Object
Range: E90 Symbolic Object
Subproperty of: E90 Symbolic Object. P106 is composed of (forms part of): E90 Symbolic Object
Quantification: (0,n :0,n)
Scope note: This property associates an instance of E73 Information Object with an instance of E90 Symbolic Object (or any of its subclasses) that was included in it.
This property makes it possible to recognise the autonomous status of the incorporated signs, which were created in a distinct context, and can be incorporated in many distinct self-contained expressions, and to highlight the difference between structural and accidental whole-part relationships between conceptual entities.
It accounts for many cultural facts that are quite frequent and significant: the inclusion of a poem in an anthology, the re-use of an operatic aria in a new opera, the use of a reproduction of a painting for a book cover or a CD booklet, the integration of textual quotations, the presence of lyrics in a song that sets those lyrics to music, the presence of the text of a play in a movie based on that play, etc.
In particular, this property allows for modelling relationships of different levels of symbolic specificity, such as the natural language words making up a particular text, the characters making up the words and punctuation, the choice of fonts and page layout for the characters.
When restricted to information objects, that is, seen as a property with E73 Information Object as domain and range the property is transitive.
A digital photograph of a manuscript page incorporates the text of af manuscript page, if the respective text is defined as a sequence of symbols of a particular type, such as Latin characters, and the resolution and quality of the digital image is sufficient to resolve these symbols so they are readable on the digital image.
In the 38th joined meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9 and the 31st FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the The sig reviewed and accepted MD’s proposal for the scope note of P165 about adding a paragraph for feature transfer. Thus the new scope note is the following:
P165 incorporates (is incorporated in)
Domain: E73 Information Object
Range: E90 Symbolic Object
Subproperty of: E90 Symbolic Object. P106 is composed of (forms part of): E90 Symbolic Object
Quantification: (0,n :0,n)
Scope note: This property associates an instance of E73 Information Object with an instance of E90 Symbolic Object (or any of its subclasses) that was included in it.
This property makes it possible to recognise the autonomous status of the incorporated signs, which were created in a distinct context, and can be incorporated in many distinct self-contained expressions, and to highlight the difference between structural and accidental whole-part relationships between conceptual entities.
It accounts for many cultural facts that are quite frequent and significant: the inclusion of a poem in an anthology, the re-use of an operatic aria in a new opera, the use of a reproduction of a painting for a book cover or a CD booklet, the integration of textual quotations, the presence of lyrics in a song that sets those lyrics to music, the presence of the text of a play in a movie based on that play, etc.
In particular, this property allows for modelling relationships of different levels of symbolic specificity, such as the natural language words making up a particular text, the characters making up the words and punctuation, the choice of fonts and page layout for the characters.
When restricted to information objects, that is, seen as a property with E73 Information Object as domain and range the property is transitive.
A digital photograph of a manuscript page incorporates the text of a manuscript page, if the respective text is defined as a sequence of symbols of a particular type, such as Latin characters, and the resolution and quality of the digital image is sufficient to resolve these symbols so they are readable on the digital image.
The issue is closed.
Heraklion, April 2017