In the 46th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 39th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting; While discussing property socP21 specifies place and socP22 specifies time in the context of issue 419, it was suggested and agreed by the sig members present that these properties should best be rendered as *falls within* properties for place and time, respectively.
HW: The sig appointed MD to rewrite the scope notes and examples to reflect new properties. This is to be done separately, in a new issue.
Athens, February 2020
In the 53rd CIDOC CRM & 46th FRBRoo SIG meeting, the SIG decided to reassign the HW to redraft:
- socP21 specifies place --> isA P89 falls within [D: E53, R: E53]
- socP22 specifies time --> isA P86 falls within [D: E52. R: E52]
in time for the meeting in Rome, to MD and TV. To be included in the draft version of CRMact (needs be submitted to the Sig).
May 2022
Post by Thanasis Velios (12 July 2022)
Dear all,
This is for CRMact. Martin and I have reformulated the scope notes of actP21 and actP22 to include contained places and time spans as the HW dictated.
Old scope note for actP21
This property associates an instance of actE4 Event Template with the instance of E53 Place which is specified by the template as the place of the specified event.
Proposed scope note for actP21
This property associates an instance of actE4 Event Template with the instance of E53 Place which is specified by the template as the place of the specified event. An event will match the specified place when it happens at an instance of E53 Place which is contained within or is identical to the specified instance of E53 Place. This can automatically be verified if the two instances of E53 Place have been connected with the property P89 falls within (contains).
Old scope note for actP22
This property associates an instance of actE4 Event Template with the instance of E52 Time-span which is specified by the template as being the time-span for the specified event.
Proposed scope note for actP22
This property associates an instance of actE4 Event Template with the instance of E52 Time-span which is specified by the template as being the time-span for the specified event. An event will match the specified time-span even when it happens during an instance of E52 Time-span contained within the specified instance of E52 Time-span. This can automatically be verified if the two instances of E52 Time-span have been connected with the property P86 falls within (contains).
Happy to hear your thoughts.
All the best,
Thanasis
P.S. In the current version of CRMact, the range of actP21 is my mistake noted as E55 Type. It is of course E53 Place.
In the 54th CIDOC CRM & 47th FRBR/LRMoo SIG meeting, the SIG went through the proposal by Thanasis Velios to adjust scope-notes of CRMact properties actP21 specifies place within & actP22 specifies time within (details here).
Discussion points:
- Packing too much information of a different kind in one and the same construct. Containment inferences are adequately captured with the proposed properties.
- For places, containment is very basic, but other relations (overlap) should be explored too [f.i., tsunami waves covering an area, the place covered could only partially overlap with the place specified by the event template]
- For timespans, one could resort to properties defined based on Allen operators. An event that matches a template for its specified timespan only needs to declare what portion of the specified timespan it matches (through P81/82 for instance).
- The requirement for containment for specified timespans does not allow timespans extending beyond the foreseen timespan to be matched to them.
Proposal (to be reconsidered in the next SIG meeting)
For specified place: keep proposed reformulation by TV but change label to reflect “containment relation”, f.i., “specifies place within”. Introduce a second property for overlap relations. Make sure that CRMbase is not duplicated as an event template specification in the process.
Decision: TV to rework scope notes (HW)
Rome, September 2022
In the 55th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM and SO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 48th FRBR/LRMoo SIG meeting, TV walked the SIG through the issue. It involves renaming CRM properties actP22 specifies time-span (is specified time-span of) and actP21 specifies place within (is specified place of), that connect an event template to the timespan and place it is included in/occurs at, respectively.
Proposal: Introduce another property for places overlapping with that of the event template.
Decisions:
- the SIG decided against the introduction of an extra property on the grounds that CRM properties can be used to designate all sorts of topological relations and there is no reason to duplicate all possible constructs in CRMact.
- If at a later stage there is need to introduce such a property or broaden the scope of actP21 to match the semantics of overlap, that can be done in a separate issue.
- actP21/actP22 were renamed into (differences in underscore):
- actP21 specifies place within (is contained place specified by)
- actP22 specifies time-span within (is contained time-span specified by)
Issue closed
Belval, December 2022