Issue 498: the scope note of E53 can be sets of contiguous areas

ID: 
498
Starting Date: 
2020-06-26
Status: 
Open
Background: 

On virtual meeting of CIDOC CRM editorial team for version 7.0  on February 6, 2020 

The editorial team reviewed the  decision of the 46th sig meeting during the next virtual meeting and proposed 

(a) to NOT delete the following paragraph
"Consequently, an instance of E4 Period may occupy a number of disjoint spacetime volumes, however there must not be a discontinuity in the timespan covered by these spacetime volumes. This means that an instance of E4 Period must be contiguous in time. If it has ended in all areas, it has ended as a whole. However, it may end in one area before another, such as in the Polynesian migration, and it continues as long as it is ongoing in at least one area"
(b) to create a new issue about making  clear that the scope note of E53 can be sets of contiguous areas

The crm-sig on 26/2/2020 accepted  the above (a) & (b)

June 2020

Current Proposal: 

HW by MD (6 June 2021)

Dear All,

Here my proposal for revision of the scope note of E53 Place:

OLD: E53 Place

Subclass of: E1 CRM Entity

Scope note:

    This class comprises extents in space, in particular on the surface of the earth, in the pure sense of physics: independent from temporal phenomena and matter.

    The instances of E53 Place are usually determined by reference to the position of "immobile" objects such as buildings, cities, mountains, rivers, or dedicated geodetic marks, but may also be determined by reference to mobile objects. A Place can be determined by combining a frame of reference and a location with respect to this frame.

     It is sometimes argued that instances of E53 Place are best identified by global coordinates or absolute reference systems. However, relative references are often more relevant in the context of cultural documentation and tend to be more precise. In particular, we are often interested in position in relation to large, mobile objects, such as ships. For example, the Place at which Nelson died is known with reference to a large mobile object – H.M.S Victory. A resolution of this Place in terms of absolute coordinates would require knowledge of the movements of the vessel and the precise time of death, either of which may be revised, and the result would lack historical and cultural relevance.

    Any instance of E18 Physical Thing can serve as a frame of reference for an instance of E53 Place. This may be documented using the property P157 is at rest relative to (provides reference space for).

----------
NEW: E53 Place

Subclass of: E1 CRM Entity

Scope note: 
    This class comprises extents in the natural space we live in, in particular on the surface of the earth, in the pure sense of physics: independent from temporal phenomena and matter. They may serve describing the physical location of things or phenomena or other areas of interest. Geometrically, instances of E53 Place constitute single contiguous areas or a finite aggregation of contiguous, mutually disjoint areas in space. They may have fuzzy boundaries.  

    The instances of E53 Place are usually determined by reference to the position of "immobile" objects such as buildings, cities, mountains, rivers, or dedicated geodetic marks, but may also be determined by reference to mobile objects. A Place can be determined by combining a frame of reference and a location with respect to this frame.

    It is sometimes argued that instances of E53 Place are best identified by global coordinates or absolute reference systems. However, relative references are often more relevant in the context of cultural documentation and tend to be more precise. In particular, we are often interested in positions in relation to large, mobile objects, such as ships. For example, the Place at which Nelson died is known with reference to a large mobile object – H.M.S Victory. A resolution of this Place in terms of absolute coordinates would require knowledge of the movements of the vessel and the precise time of death, either of which may be revised, and the result would lack historical and cultural relevance.

    Any instance of E18 Physical Thing can serve as a frame of reference for an instance of E53 Place. This may be documented using the property P157 is at rest relative to (provides reference space for).

Daria Hookk (7 June 2021)

Dear colleagues,

 

I have only an example with a "capital". This point can change location and even the area is able to replace. Sometimes it is not the same place as it was some centuries ago. For example, old settlement of Helsinki (or Helsingfors) located in the area of the modern airport, not on the coast. The same story with Upsala in Sweden. Finally, the capitals transfered in modern time: Moscow-St Petersburg-Moscow.

With kind regards,
Daria Hookk

 Stephen Stead -(7 June 2021)
I am having a problem with the phrase "contiguous, mutually disjoint" which, to me, seems to be a contradiction in terms.

Is the intention to say that we can have a known set of disjointed areas which are each, individually, contiguous?

 Rgds

SdS

MD (6 June 2021)

On 6/7/2021 1:45 PM, Stephen Stead wrote:
I am having a problem with the phrase "contiguous, mutually disjoint" which, to me, seems to be a contradiction in terms.

Is the intention to say that we can have a known set of disjointed areas which are each, individually, contiguous?

 

Exactly 

Rgds

SdS

Martin Doerr (7 June 2021)

Dear Dariah,

These are good examples. We normally consider colonies, such as French Guayana, and countries on multiple islands.

Best,

Martin

On 6/7/2021 8:39 AM, Дарья Юрьевна Гук wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I have only an example with a "capital". This point can change location and even the area is able to replace. Sometimes it is not the same place as it was some centuries ago. For example, old settlement of Helsinki (or Helsingfors) located in the area of the modern airport, not on the coast. The same story with Upsala in Sweden. Finally, the capitals transfered in modern time: Moscow-St Petersburg-Moscow.
>
>
> With kind regards,
> Daria Hookk
 

In the 50th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and SO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 43nd FRBR – CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting, the SIG reviewed HW by  MD (new scope note for E53 Place). 

Decisions:

  1. Changes proposed by MD accepted.
  2. The examples provided by DH to be reworked and included in the examples set. The places they refer to can be regarded as instances of E92 STV with multiple spatial projections. 
  3. The examples provided by Dh are also valid for instances of E4 Period. To find their way in the definition of E4 (clarification in the scope note AND examples section). To be discussed in a new issue. 

Details of the decisions, here.

June 2021

 

Reference to Issues:

Meetings discussed: