Issue 476: Pxx represents entity of type

ID: 
476
Starting Date: 
2020-02-24
Working Group: 
3
Status: 
Open
Background: 

Posted by Richard Sanderson on 19/2/2020

Dear all,

(Last new issue for now, I promise)

When describing a Visual Item, we can say that it represents some entity that you can point to (e.g. the sitter), that it is about some subject that you can’t point to (e.g love) and it can have general classifications with has type for style (abstract) or other such features of the overall visual content. However, it would be useful to be able to say that a class of entity is represented in the visual item rather than a specific entity. 

We have tried several approaches to this. If we want to say that a still life painting depicts flowers, we would not want to create a Biological Object and classify it as a flower to be represented by the visual item of the painting … such a flower may never have actually existed, and it would be enormously expensive. Equally we don’t think that the Type “flowers” is represented in the painting … it’s a not a depiction of all flowers, it’s a depiction of some, likely fictional, collection of specific flowers.

So we would propose a new property that parallels P138 represents, but instead refers to a class of entity rather than a specific.

We can see this pattern already in the model:

P16 used specific object    vs   P125 used object of type

P20 had specific purpose     vs    P21 had general purpose

P33 used specific technique    vs   P32 used general technique

P108 has produced    vs    P186 produced thing of product type

 

Pxx represents entity of type

Domain: E36 Visual Item

Range: E55 Type

Sub Property Of P138 Represents

This property establishes the relationship between an E36 Visual Item and an E55 Type that represents the class of entity which it visually represents.  This property is used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or not of documentary interest.  The manner or mode of the representation can be captured using Pxx.1 mode of representation.

 

Properties:  Pxx.1 mode of representation: E55 Type

 

Examples:

    The still life painting’s image content (E36) represents and entity of type flowers (E55)
    The sculpture’s visual content (E36) represents an entity of type woman (E55)
    The photograph’s visual content (E36) represents an entity of type beach (E55) in the manner of background (E55) 

 

 

Thoughts?

Posted by Nicola Carboni on 25/2/2020

Dear Rob,

I do agree with the need and the formulation, and it can be extremely useful for iconographical attributes (which are intentionally classified using categories). I did personally used the same construct in an extension of CRM for iconographical representation, so would love to see it in CRM base.

    Sub Property Of P138 Represents

What about making it as subproperty of "P137 exemplifies (is exemplified by)". It does seems to me more appropriate.

    This property establishes the relationship between an E36 Visual Item and an E55 Type that represents the class of entity which it visually represents. This property is used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or not of documentary interest. The manner or mode of the representation can be captured using Pxx.1 mode of representation.

I would not use a negative ("not of documentary interest") and say "This property is used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or for documenting the belonging of an item to a specific category" or another more positive formulation. In my experience, the choice of the classification of categorical vs instance depends on the discipline and not by a lack of documentary interest.

Another example could be:

    The attribute of the wall painting "Saint George" (E36) represents an entity of type dragon (E55) in the manner of Iconographical Attribute (E55)
 

Current Proposal: 

In the 46th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 39th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meetingThe sig discussed the necessity of introducing such a property and agreed to it. Sig members did not oppose to the introduction of a property used when the specific entity being represented is either unknown, or not of documentary interest. The scope note proposed by RS is to be put up for discussion over the next sig meeting.

Athens, February 2020

 

Posted by Robert Sanderson on 6/3/2020

Hi Nicola,

I disagree with the relationship to P137.  That would mean that the visual item exemplified the type, which it doesn’t, it merely depicts an entity of the type.

For example, if it were a sub-property of P137 and I was looking for exemplars of abstract impressionism, I might find images that are photographic that merely depict an instance of something which is abstract impressionism.

I could also see it being a sibling to P138 rather than a child, and thus a sub-property of P67.

I took the “not of interest” phrase from the parallel P125:

> This property defines the kind of objects used in an E7 Activity, when the specific instance is either unknown or not of interest, such as use of "a hammer".

But I’m also happy with your reformulation.

Posted by Robert on 25/6/2020

Yesterday we agreed that the scope note for Pxx represents entity of type should be clarified to separate it from just P138 directly to an E55 type.

My attempt to do so for discussion in session 3 tomorrow:

Scope Note:

This property establishes the relationship between an E36 Visual Item and an E55 Type that represents the class of entity which it visually represents.  This property is used when the identity of the specific entity being represented is unknown or unidentified beyond the content of the E36 Visual Item. Pxx represents entity of type is, thus, a shortcut of the more fully developed path from the domain E36 Visual Item through P138 represents, E1 Entity, P2 has type, to the range E55 Type. 

This property is most useful when there is an entity of any type being depicted that is not identifiable as any single individual, but is clearly of a particular type. The image carried by a photograph of an unknown garden would depict many flowers, but none of which are known as entities beyond the photograph. Conversely, if there isn't an individual that could fill the role of the E1 Entity in the fully developed path, then this property is not appropriate, and a direct relationship of P138 represents from the E36 Visual Item to the E55 Type is recommended. 

 The manner or mode of the representation can be captured using Pxx.1 mode of representation.

Examples:

    The photograph’s visual content (E36) represents an entity of type beach (E55) 

    The sculpture’s visual content (E36) represents an entity of type woman (E55)

    The landscape painting’s image content (E36) represents an entity of type field (E55) in the manner of background (E55)

In the 47th joint meeting of the CIDOC CRM SIG and ISO/TC46/SC4/WG9; 40th FRBR - CIDOC CRM Harmonization meeting; the sig discussed the proposal to  Introduce a new property (Pxxx represents entity of type) to facilitate documenting the type of an entity represented by a visual item and  decided to postpone reaching a decision until RS has brought back an updated proposal incorporating the changes suggested by the SIG (define it as a shortcut and redraft the examples); which should be before session 2.3. Then, if the SIG agrees it could be given an identifier and be used by the community –it is not to go to the version submitted to ISO. HW for RS. The details of the discussion can be found here.

June 2020